Scary and shameful residents of Ohio show how stupid they are on Al Jazeera
I can't imagine why anyone would hate us with intellectual giants like this calling themselves Americans. What a bunch of fucking morons, racists and such.
From Tyler's blog.
I do not doubt that racism is still alive and well and the morons in this video are extremely ill-informed. What I don't like (and you know how predictable I am) is that the media is painting ALL McCain/Palin supporters as racists, this video proves just that.
I should point out a few things:
"Baby Killer" - comes from his opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act as state senator of Illinois.
"Friends with Terrorists" - comes from his 'association' with Bill Ayers.
"Looking at whites as trash" - comes from his association with Rev. Wright's church, whom the Obama family has been a member of for 20 years.
I'm not condoning the negative campaign that McCain's camp has been running and I'm sure it plays a huge role in why he's trailing in the polls. These are the basis of the arguements that these rally-goers are making and some people feel that character plays a huge role in the Presidency.
Come on, Rob, do you buy any of that nonsense, and does it justify people being morons? He doesn't kill babies, hang out with terrorists or hate white people (seeing as his mom is white).
And I don't think the media is painting anything. That was an Al Jazeera report, and they got people on both sides of that fence.
Besides, McCain can't say in a debate that Obama wouldn't recant some whacko third partys' comment and not do it himself.
Who really cares about all of these other issues? I don't care if Obama is black or green or pink. I'm not voting for Obama because he's a Socialist. And as Marx would tell you, Socialism is the bridge between Capitalism and Communism.
Unfortunately, McCain supported the Wall Street bailout which makes him suspect also. However, he's still the less Socialistic of the two, which is why he is getting my vote.
Jeff,
Nowhere did I say I agree with all of this. I'm just telling you where these come from to balance this argument.
And since you want to make this about me now, yes I personally have a problem with his opposition to the BAIPA. That is something well documented as state senator. I couldn't imagine opposing a bill that would allow it. I think his argument that it could overturn Roe v. Wade is unfounded, as the text of the bill was identical to the federal bill that contained a clause not to have any impact on the ruling of Roe v. Wade.
I do not understand how any decent person could oppose such a bill, when the same bill was passed in the US Senate 99-0. This was before Obama became US senator.
While Obama doesn't go out and kill babies, he did oppose legislation to make it mandatory for doctors and nurses to give care to infants that were born, regardless of a botched abortion. This questions the guy's character. Not only that, there could be a special interest behind it, which could be that Obama has a price, no matter how decent or heinous the law could be.
And in the grand scheme of things JM just about sums up my position against Obama, which is his tax policy. I do not agree with taxing one and giving it to another. Which is the big reason for my support of McCain and Palin.
And Jeff, to explain why I think the media is painting ALL McCain/Palin supporters as racists is that the posted video didn't include anything BUT people spewing out the stupidity. Surely everybody there doesn't hold the same view, but the stupids are the ones who got camera time. Funny how that happens...
Anyways I'll let this speak for itself:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&nolr=1&q=mccain+racist&btnG=Search+News
The end result:
Central Florida 7th grader called racist for wearing Palin t-shirt - http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Politics/Detail;jsessionid=2C662CD7F60EF7168C08BEDB0DF92A1E?contentId=7664724&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.14.1&sflg=1
Jeff, I had a big long reply to all this written.... aborted babies not needing health care as much as my mother who has worked hard her whole life, etc.... but I don't think it's worth it. Just let me voice that I agree with you and such small-mindedness makes me embarrassed to be a Buckeye. It's going to be a great day on Nov 5th - we're going to wake up in a new world and the stiffs are scared!!!
Well you grew up in PA, so you don't have to be too embarrassed. :)
Rob, you consistently regurgitate what you want to believe, and it frustrates the hell out of me. You take what the haters say at face value and you never verify anything. There are great resources out there, one of my favorites being factcheck.org, which calls out the bullshit of both sides.
As long as you're willing to believe there is a universal truth held by one side, and the other side is universally wrong, you can never make informed decisions. You're smart enough to cut through the bullshit, but seem unwilling to do so.
Jeff, I cannot begin to tell you how thrilled I am to know how much I frustrate you.
One thing that I think you haven't figured out about me is that I LOVE to debate, most importantly I LOVE to debate on facts. When you present one argument I will always bring up a counterpoint and a lot of the time I am simply playing devil's advocate. Yes, I do have my own angle, but it still doesn't change the fact that there are always at least two sides to each story and I try my best to bring about the other.
When I make an argument, I do the best I can to verify them before I "regurgitate" them. I'm telling you how I think the media paints a story of all McCain/Palin supporters and cite examples for it. Is it what I want to believe? Absolutely not. I would like for journalists to be very objective with ANY candidate. I think it is very, very important to have all the information in front of us when we make our decisions, whether we like it or not.
Here we are knowing that Obama has been running for POTUS for roughly two years, but we do not know exactly who he is. All we know is that he can articulate himself and apparently has a "plan" on his website. The media likes to cover up his gaffes and associations and in a sense, point a laser beam in a different direction so the cat (the American public) can look the other way while something else is going on. In this case, the accusations of racism to those who support McCain and Palin is covering up Obama's past associations and his past "accomplishments." Why is that?
Fundamentally Jeff, you and I are both different and I don't foresee that changing. There was a time that I shared your opinion of the world until a few life experiences changed that. I have a feeling that you think your emotional spouting of talking points to me is somehow going to change my opinion. In my case I KNOW that my emotional spouting of talking points to you will NOT change your opinion. However, the random people who come by here to witness our discussion will hear what I have to say knowing that they have information from both sides of the aisle and make a more informed decision on who to elect. I refuse to stand by and allow you to post your ideas unopposed.
I don't think you verify anything. And when it comes to you, I don't find myself posting my ideas, only cutting through the regurgitated stuff.
I don't want you to change your opinion, I want you to think about it. I'd love to know what life experiences have helped shape your opinions too.
Someday Jeff I'll tell you, I don't have the time to tell you my life's story. I respect you for your opinions and won't dare question it or figure out "why" you are the way you are. What I think we need (and I know for sure this is something we both agree on) is a happy medium between our ideas. These ideals we share are what this country was founded on.
What we've seen from the 1980's until now is the pendulum swinging from the left to the right, somewhere during that time frame things were "perfect," as in an equilibrium between conservatism and liberalism. Now we are beginning to see that pendulum swing the other way. When it comes down to it, my life isn't going to be over if Obama gets elected and if there's a super majority in Congress. I do think my life might be harder, maybe it won't, but either way I'll get through it. Much is the same that if McCain gets elected into office should your life not be over. What is important is that you fight for what you believe in.
And on the flip side I think your ideas are more liberal than on the medium. Funny how that works out. It's all in a matter of perspective :)
I make no bones about myself being a conservative only in the aspect of government and government spending. Social issues, like abortion, gay rights, civil rights I'm actually quite liberal about. As far as government meddling into social issues, that's something I'm conservative about. To some that may be "too" conservative, to me I think there is a happy medium in keeping a smaller government federally and having the states call the shots for their own state.
Using my tax $$ to bail out businesses that made bad decisions hurts me, you, and my future offspring. Not only do we get to pay for it, our kids get to as well!
All these government programs that Obama and McCain propose sound wonderful, but all of these come with a price. I actually LIKE McCain's idea of "freezing" spending and re-evaluating everything. Yet I would be stuck having to vote for someone who supported the bail out. I honestly think that businesses that make bad decisions should fail, otherwise how are they going to learn?
The same goes with people and their finances. Those who make bad decisions that had the "right" to purchase a home should also have the "right" to fail if they cannot pay the mortgage. Homeownership is NOT a right, same for healthcare, retirement, or anything else that comes from the American tax payer. This is something that we should each be responsible for. I'm sure this all sounds harsh and neo-con to some, but I don't agree with government meddling in social issues because all we've seen them do is make the problem worse.
And again I'm sure this sounds mean, it's not all that bad if someone gets evicted from their house. Get an apartment and start all over. Yeah, I lived in an apartment, yeah it sucked for a while, but we did it. I've heard of other people who have had to do that and thus, ended up making better decisions and did more to better themselves. If we rely on government to bail people out without consequences, we're doomed to fail again.
That is my conservative view on government, based on my life experiences I don't foresee it changing.
The bail out is an investment. "We" get that money back. Besides, "we" aren't paying it with tax dollars, the feds are paying for it with money they're borrowing.
If I'm paying into a retirement system, I certainly have a right to reap its benefits when the time comes.
So doesn't the whole providing for people thing get more complicated to you when it involves children that have no say in the matter? Was my mother a bad person for using food stamps to feed me and my brother?
You buy too much into the alleged "conservative ideal" and try to over-simplify everything. And you didn't answer my question... are you materially hurt by the federal government, or are you being idealistic? And before you give me crap about labeling you, you're the one who said it was your "conservative" view.
Mark my words Jeff, the bailout will NOT be an investment. It will be an excuse to grow government and I don't want it. Tell me, what scenario do you see playing out 5 years from now IF we even get a return on the bailout.
"Oh look! We're getting a $2.2 trillion return on a $750 billion bailout, lets give it back to the people!"
-or-
"Oh look! We're getting a $2.2 trillion return on a $750 billion bailout, look at all the problems we can "solve" with it. Let's "reform" something.
Where have we heard that before Jeff? When Clinton had the so-called "surplus" in the federal budget? We're they going to give it back to the people?
I have no bones about having a Social Security system in place. If people want to contribute to it and draw from it when they retire, fine. I would rather have the choice to do what I want with my retirement fund, invest where I want to, and draw from it when I want to. Of course, this conservative idea has been mislabeled as eliminating Social Security when that is clearly not the case. It gives us a choice with where we want to invest in our retirement. We can either opt into SS or opt out. At my age I see that more people are going to draw from SS in the future than those who are contributing, so why would I want to throw my money into something that I'm pretty sure I'm not going to see much of a return on?
Is it a terrible thing for someone to accept food stamps or welfare? Depends on the situation. My mom used food stamps for us when there was 4 of us kids and both of my parents were unemployed fresh out of the army. We need programs like that, I have no problem paying taxes to go to families like that. What I do have a problem with is welfare REPLACING the father as a source of income, rather than a safety net when things go bad. However, we want to increase the use of welfare. All summer I've heard commercials saying how I could get food stamps despite having a job, the only way that can be promoted is by loosening up the requirements for welfare for more people to enroll. Why should I be paying for them if they can afford it already?
This is my hurt Jeff, you can chose to accept that as an answer or not. My hurt is that I'm paying for these programs that I have no control over, that want to keep growing and Obama's platform is only going to increase that hurt even more by increasing spending and raising taxes. This isn't racism, this isn't hatred, this is all about control. Your side of the aisle wants more government control and my side doesn't. That's a fundamental issue that we differ on and I won't change.
The thing about the "conservative ideal" is that it really is simple. You can either 1. work and succeed, possibly fail only to try again until you succeed or 2. not work at all and fail. Unfortunately some people just don't like to hear it.
First off, the budget surplus that has been squandered by Bush and the war had no business being returned to us with the national debt being as ridiculous as it was even then. I've seen a lot of economists say that this debt is far more damaging over the long term to the American dollar, which is in the crapper and makes everything more expensive.
Second, you're using nonsense rhetoric to connect two things joined by a "maybe because I think so." The bail-out has nothing to do with "big government." Read the legislation, they can't just piss away that money on whatever they feel like. That's not the way appropriations work.
So you admit that there's no black-and-white for welfare programs now? Tell me more about your anecdotal food stamp stuff, because I don't buy it.
You don't want to pay for a lot of things, but I got news for you... that's what you get for living in a country of 300 million people. You're right, you don't have a line-item choice, so you can take the good with the bad or, I don't know, go off the grid.
And please, the McCain and Obama plans have been compared and contrasted all over the place, and when you strip away all of the bullshit rhetoric that you're so willing to buy into, one doesn't have any intention of spending more than the other. Obama isn't going to raise your taxes. Why do you keep saying that? Where does it say he's going to do that?
The problem with your ideal, which by the way I don't buy as being conservative, is that it over-simplifies everything with a "me me me" view of the world. When people, business and government fails around you, all the success in the world won't prevent that from catching up with you. It's just not that simple.
I'm reading what you have to say and all I can do is just shake my head.
This is why I don't need to tell you my life story because you "won't buy it." I guess I didn't realize that you were a doctor. So tell me Dr. Jeff, what can I do for your help? Why is my thinking so wrong? What can I do to believe that government can solve all of our social issues instead of practicing personal responsibility?
All your going to do is tell me that what I'm thinking is wrong and you will tell me what I should be thinking. The problem with you is that you have absolutely no respect for my past nor do you care about my life experiences which shaped and formed my opinions. I on the other hand see your side of the story and my compassion will tell you that there are needs for some of the programs that are in place, SOME of them, not all of them.
I'll tell you my beef, I myself am a victim of personal responsibility. It's true but I know you won't "buy it." I went out, got an education, I paid for it, I got a job, got married and I got punished with a decent roof over my head, a wonderful family, and a decent lifestyle that I couldn't have anywhere else. On the flip side, I also know that this ride of mine could come to an end, but I can pick myself off and keep on going. Shame on me for believing in personal responsibility, shame on me.
By the way, you might want to check your zipper Jeff... your elitism is showing. ;)
No one is suggesting government can solve all of our problems. Again, you see one thing and extrapolate that into an absolute.
I don't tell you what to think either, I merely suggest that what you believe either over-simplifies the situation or lacks a factual basis.
I'm glad you can pat yourself on the back and attribute it all to personal responsibility. Maybe some day you'll understand that other forces in the universe have an impact on your life, not the least of which is other people, businesses and governments change the environment around you. You seem unwilling to accept that, despite making that case in post after post, and then you resort to sarcasm.
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